tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post2539919066035695865..comments2024-03-29T01:07:30.224-07:00Comments on Had Enough Therapy?: Suicidal OverachieversStuart Schneidermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-32930335432395641372015-04-15T07:07:08.891-07:002015-04-15T07:07:08.891-07:00Stuart,
I would like to see a breakdown of just w...Stuart,<br /><br />I would like to see a breakdown of just what percentage of these suicides are boys compared to girls.Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14962996070458991675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-7394125620036318562015-04-15T06:17:38.296-07:002015-04-15T06:17:38.296-07:00The picture of children slumped over is seriously ...The picture of children slumped over is seriously depressing.<br /><br />Thanks to David for bring up Durkheim. In his book on Suicide, Durkheim identified three kinds of suicide: egotistical, atruistic and anomic. The sense of meaninglessness, which is covered by the third usually seems to involve social dislocation.<br /><br />Copy cat suicides are certainly a big problem... one that I do not have a cure for. Perhaps the image of what happens would have an effect on those who think they are doing the world a favor. But, it seems also to be the case that media coverage provokes and encourages imitators.Stuart Schneidermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-6366423498908649712015-04-15T05:59:29.965-07:002015-04-15T05:59:29.965-07:00Several years ago, I was at an event for prospecti...Several years ago, I was at an event for prospective new students at a well-known university. Virtually all the questions asked were asked by the parents. The kids were mostly sitting there slumped over.David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-2849672381746316742015-04-15T05:45:55.676-07:002015-04-15T05:45:55.676-07:00I think David Foster has actually come up with the...I think David Foster has actually come up with the best explanation I have seen lately. This would be especially true for boys. <br />It has to be one of the most tedious experiences I can remember. When is the last time anyone felt the thrill of learning in an educational institution? Where is the thrill of exploration? <br />There was a bright spot in higher education, but even that has been dumbed down and propagandized. probably why we graduate so many people unready to face the challenges of the real world.<br />I would wonder whether the term "suicidal achievers" should not actually be being forced to be "suicidal underachievers?" Underachievement starts at the top which can be attested to by our constant downhill slide in comparison with other countries.<br />Nothing is more exciting than a challenged mind and that is not happening. One of the thrills of life should be learning and that thrill should be a part of one's existence throughout life.Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14962996070458991675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-44344156892503870262015-04-14T21:42:53.655-07:002015-04-14T21:42:53.655-07:00I used to ride trains on that line every day.
Alw...I used to ride trains on that line every day.<br /><br />Always especially hated the first of a series of suicides because we knew there would be copy cats.<br /><br />Some times I'd go back to driving to work because I couldn't stand the (almost seemed like) daily occurrences.<br /><br />I often wondered if there would be a benefit to showing a film reporting effects of a suicide on the crew and passengers--especially on the trains going towards San Francisco.Larry Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12653436584890594776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-83581589156622084782015-04-14T19:46:22.021-07:002015-04-14T19:46:22.021-07:00I'm no psychologist, but I don't think peo...I'm no psychologist, but I don't think people usually commit suicide because of difficulties, even extreme difficulties. I think they commit suicide because of a sense of meaninglessness. I believe Durkheim agreed.<br /><br />To many kids, the educational system probably comes across as a noisy, chaotic, high-pressure mass production plant that produces...nothing. You are going through ritualistic steps not because you believe in them or anyone else really believes in them, but only because that is The System. And you see no end to it, because the image you have been given is that the adult world is just the same, only worse.David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-17783737924399040332015-04-14T16:54:43.056-07:002015-04-14T16:54:43.056-07:00re: How does it feel to be overachieving in a cult...re: How does it feel to be overachieving in a culture that does not allow you to feel pride in your achievement, that dismisses your success as a function of privilege and that tells you to feel guilty for what you have achieved?<br /><br />I can relate to this although not in regards to school achievement, even when I liked what I was learning. <br /><br />But like I set a goal to be debt free and paid off my 30 year mortgage in a bit under 10 years, and I feel pride in that, but it is hard to visibly celebrate when other people are financially struggling, or worse over their head in credit card debt.<br /><br />On the opposite side, I think of my 30-something cousin who just got married, and has taken at least 6 jet vacations in the last 18 months while I've only taken 3 jet trips in my life.<br /><br />So I'm not jealous, but I do wonder about conspicuous consumption, like don't these people have any awareness that others may not be able to afford such extravagance? <br /><br />Who are they trying to impress with their Facebook vacation pictures?<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption<br /><br />Of course, when is it ever okay to flaunt the success of your overachieving nature, whether your aspiration is to live debt free, or take week long vacations every 3 months?<br /><br />When and how does "setting an example" of what success looks like become a virtue to emulate?<br /><br />Yes, I feel guilty, and it seems like the correct feeling. It probably means a portion of my success was due to undue privilege and I owe something in return.<br /><br />Maybe my purpose in life is to be a source of income to the vacation industry in Hawaii, the Caribbean and Mexico? But I don't quite believe that. <br /><br />So I'll have to see what else I can do with success I've found from my privilege and devotion.<br /><br />I'd believe in the positive value of pride, if only I didn't see how badly it can also be abused, how it can be used to hide less attactive truths and avoid necessary action.<br /><br />But some truths are too big, too impersonal and apparently don't much help motivate.<br /><br />I doubt the phase "Children are starving in China" really helped kids find pride in cleaning their plates.<br /><br />And I doubt pointing out signs American youth as underachievers, will help reduce the suicide rate.<br /><br />Ares Olympushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09726811306826601686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-56989464175552324062015-04-14T14:34:15.852-07:002015-04-14T14:34:15.852-07:00I'm not in a position to judge suicides or pre...I'm not in a position to judge suicides or pressures of modern youth. I do wonder of the "always-on" nature of social media and making for a "hyper-hierarchy" where there's no escape from being on the bottom, except for kids smart enough to disconnect and do their own thing.<br /><br />re: As I argued in The Last Psychoanalyst, the opposite of depression is pride. How much pride do children have in their own or their parents’ achievements when they are taught that their success is a symptom of social injustice?<br /><br />Pride vs depression? That seems like a rather depressing choice. Isn't pride one of the 7 deadly sins?! But of course that's the problem with words, they all mean many things, and include good and bad qualities.<br /><br />I remember reading the Poet Robert Bly connected the Viet Nam war to a loss of trust and respect for older men, when there was clear evidence of betrayal. Or I should say there was two betrayals, first the leaders of the war, and then the contempt of the American public towards veterans who returned.<br /><br />But of course this might show the purpose of pride. If your choice is depression or pride when people spit on you, pride might seem the better bet.<br /><br />On the other hand, I rather wonder if depression and prides are "opposite", that they exist together, so the expression of pride can suppress awareness of depression, but how do to make pride more than propaganda?<br /><br />Of course the answer is pride has to be based on deed not word. Saying the right things don't matter if you can't live the values you express.<br /><br />So if you're depressed, and don't want to get out of bed when your alarm clock rings, but you do, you can feel pride. And if you make your bed as well, so you don't try to crawl back in, you can feel further pride. And so on.<br /><br />I can see that. And if you can do those small steps, you probably will not be vulerable to suicide.<br />Ares Olympushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09726811306826601686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-2579483082543794652015-04-14T11:15:21.365-07:002015-04-14T11:15:21.365-07:00As I always expect, you have keen observations on ...As I always expect, you have keen observations on yet another obsession in our culture that determines if a child has worth or will be able to flourish based only on academic performance. Crazy!<br />drtceline@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05068560803010332344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-76343298951443051232015-04-14T08:38:28.702-07:002015-04-14T08:38:28.702-07:00mix the entitlement mentality and a lack of a real...mix the entitlement mentality and a lack of a real world work ethic with parents who don't understand the roots of their own success so they grasp at things like "the right college" and you get children who think they deserve things they have not worked for and are failure if they don't meet their parents goals ... of course they want to kill themselves ...<br /><br />Darwin anticipated this ... Kaiser Derden (aka TDL)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17707948032455985591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-24230015722424784922015-04-14T08:36:33.760-07:002015-04-14T08:36:33.760-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kaiser Derden (aka TDL)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17707948032455985591noreply@blogger.com