tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post5287240982225635415..comments2024-03-26T06:17:49.527-07:00Comments on Had Enough Therapy?: Emotional AffairsStuart Schneidermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-85250078029164583292018-03-14T04:59:54.539-07:002018-03-14T04:59:54.539-07:00I am 82 days post discovery of my husbnd’s emotion...I am 82 days post discovery of my husbnd’s emotional affair with a work “friend” 28 years his junior. The affair was all-consuming for my husband. In the almost year it was going on, he was absent from our home, our conversations, and our bed. His phone was his constant companion: sometimes staying up all night communicating with her. I knew something was wrong. I knew he was distant. I asked repeatedly if he was seeing someone. <br /><br />He tells me that he didn’t realize it was crossing a line as it was happening. When I showed him the phone logs, he wa shocked at the intensity of their deception. The number, length, and frequency of the calls is crushing to see all put together. I am not sure he truly realized how much he was taking from us in terms of time, attention, and emotional connection. I am not sure he understood the potential for complete devastation to me and our marriage. I am not dumb enough to think he wasn’t aware that what he was doing was wrong, but I do believe he did not realize the depth of hurt it was causing. <br /><br />Since discovery, my life has been hell. We want to save our 30 year marriage, but there is so much betrayal, hurt, and anger to overcome. My self esteem and confidence are suffering. My ability to trust him is completely gone. There are no words to describe what I feel I have lost. We know we are not fixing our marriage; we are starting over. <br /><br />Anyone that thinks an Emotional affair is not an affair, is not harmful, is not betrayal, is not devastating to the spouse, has never survived one. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-91772820689093314042017-05-14T07:44:17.218-07:002017-05-14T07:44:17.218-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Adelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14230904786734551535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-38777958277196088052016-10-30T21:07:27.681-07:002016-10-30T21:07:27.681-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14268554119870128024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-11408583768781515982016-09-18T16:56:08.775-07:002016-09-18T16:56:08.775-07:00You cannot choose who you have feelings for. Human...You cannot choose who you have feelings for. Human beings as an animal race are not actually monogamous animals. We decide to be as a "social norm". Therefore, if you have feelings for a person but do not physically act on them are you not showing respect for your partner? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-90739268117842880232016-07-05T21:57:48.903-07:002016-07-05T21:57:48.903-07:00I love how this article is slanted toward the poor...I love how this article is slanted toward the poor naive male adulterer. Of course written by a male. I've read other articles on this subject and most of them begin with the idea neither one tells themselves, "Today would be a great day for an affair. I think I'll have one." Both parties, starting out are naive. I understand women are more in touch with their feelings, but could almost be a slave to them rather than make a man a slave to themselves. She is not the evil woman with the poisoned apple luring the unassuming married man, until he eats of it, only to have the affair.. She on the other hand can be used to fill his emotional needs of validation and affirmation without any promise of true love. It's best to write of both sides. There is no innocent party. Both are guilty, no matter what the circumstances. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-54703721121800722162015-08-20T21:24:41.889-07:002015-08-20T21:24:41.889-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-68216267356285600452015-07-03T06:55:58.284-07:002015-07-03T06:55:58.284-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17926333292894013844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-48128705435172363722014-09-05T17:55:30.188-07:002014-09-05T17:55:30.188-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12738514637851358322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-88694702201192267662013-02-20T07:16:32.934-08:002013-02-20T07:16:32.934-08:00We'd actually be living in the Garden of Eden,...We'd actually be living in the Garden of Eden, J.P. The Fall meant that we had to re-adjust to a new reality, one of pain and toil. We did. Now we are acting is though we are exempt... that "they" (whoever "they" are) will always bail us out.<br /><br />And the last Spiritual Awakening was a mere adventure, a dalliance if you will. It was spiritual exploration, without any commitment to a life path. What emerged was a life of make-believe, a life without consequences. It was all about words, not congruent actions and re-alignment of one's life. This is distinct from the First and Second Spiritual Awakenings in America, when people actually changed their lives. Look at how incongruent Boomer lives are today from the 1960s values they espoused.<br /><br />What is different this time around with evolving social norms (which, as you said, are always changing) is that people are insulated from the consequences of their actions. Their anti-social, unproductive behavior is subsidized by other people. One didn't have access to welfare, bridge cards, WIC, and 99+ weeks of unemployment insurance during previous social shifts. Things happened, and people adjusted to them within the same boundaries that have existed for time immemorial (or at least since The Fall). It required a revision of pieces of the social contract and a refitting of the culture. I assert people are not living with that same pressure today, and that this is new because there is no countervailing social force to bring things back to center. The only way that will happen is for the current economic system (built as it is on subsidy) collapses... and then we're in for a world of hurt.<br /><br />In the end, the truth will set you free. Man can only deny his own nature for so long.<br /><br />TipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-44351495083122834952013-02-19T18:03:10.266-08:002013-02-19T18:03:10.266-08:00Oh, Jungian active imagination and synchronicity, ...Oh, Jungian active imagination and synchronicity, where would I be without you?<br /><br />Tip's correct that the last Spiritual Awakening sliced through the entire set of social norms.<br /><br />However, that's what *always* happens.<br /><br />Otherwise, we would still be living in the High Middle Ages.<br /><br />(I see that I'm still being used to help Google maps tell what house numbers they are photographing.)JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126071014909954387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-7554762954880386562013-02-19T05:34:14.123-08:002013-02-19T05:34:14.123-08:00Amazing how it all comes down to PERSONAL responsi...Amazing how it all comes down to PERSONAL responsibility. No society can exist without INDIVIDUALS who are willing to be individuals.<br />It is the group mindset that is divisive.<br />Well put Tip. Its not like a number of us haven't mentioned it before in every possible venue. Just think how many problems we face would be solved or ameliorated if people just took responsibility for their actions. It is truly mind boggling that we abdicate so much of our responsibilities to a government instead of ourselves that we seem not to understand the loss of freedom that flows away from us each time we do.Dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14962996070458991675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-29150239690138179862013-02-18T17:21:56.427-08:002013-02-18T17:21:56.427-08:00Wow!
Tip, I always enjoy reading your comments on ...Wow!<br />Tip, I always enjoy reading your comments on Stuart's blog (as I enjoy Stuart's posts)<br />But this, by far, is my favorite.<br />You have hit the nail right on the head.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-48586990862758857722013-02-18T14:40:30.604-08:002013-02-18T14:40:30.604-08:00Fair enough, Stuart. At the same time, the biggest...Fair enough, Stuart. At the same time, the biggest issue of our time is the function of commitments in our society, and the individual's ethical responsibility to respect those commitments as sacred. This is the most important component of a healthy, functioning society: mutual resect for sacred commitments. And it takes everyone being on board to make it work. It requires a shared understanding of boundaries, areas where "thou shalt not tread." I'm aware that he word "NO" is out of favor today, and phrases like "thou shalt..." sound like mystical emanations from a burning bush. Yet we've got to right the ship, because we risk becoming animals when we just unquestioningly act on our own emotional and physical urges.<br /><br />The breakdown in modern American society is that we have abanoned a shared social code. I'm not speaking of a legal framework, but an agreed understanding about the value of commitment and integrity as human social constructs. If we are to have men and women working together in the same workplace (the modern one you describe), then we must evolve our social framework to respect sacred commitments, whether civil or religious. Otherwise, the basic idea of the family as the core social unit will implode, and we will look or mommies and daddies elsewhere (and never grow up). If that happens, we're screwed, because the only other duct tape we can use is law, and we've seen how well that's worked the last 50 years. Government intervention (beyond setting basic standards such as licenses) is horribly inefficient way to run a society. It doesn't work. People have to navigate socially based on mutual understanding, not pieces of paper and litigation.<br /><br />The American system was established as a Constitutionally-limited federal republic. It guarantees the citizen fundamental rights to act. It was set up with specific enumerated powers to the federal government, devolving the rest to the state and/or the people. Nifty, huh? But there's a catch: the system is fundamentally reliant on a virtuous, industrious citizenry. Otherwise, it doesn't work. I'm not intending this to be a civics lesson, but I ask you all: how can our freedoms and liberties endure if we don't respect the demands those rights place on us to act virtuously? I don't see how it's possible. <br /><br />So if our mainstream media culture mocks virtuous people (or, worse, represents them as manifestations of boredom), glorifies plainly anti-social behavior, holds that "who's got the power?" is the only purpose of a newscast, denigrates meaningful questions as "below the audience's capacity," and panders to every aggrieved group's feelings... how can the Republic endure as such? A republic means the people are sovereign. How's it going? We're distracting and amusing ourselves to death.<br /><br />Rights carry responsibilities. Natural law says that if you do not use things in accordance with their nature, chaos will result. If we have developed a culture that ignores, diminishes or eschews sacred commitments, we're screwed. It's that simple. Our social norms need to catch-up with the tools at our disposal, or our tools will become instruments for anti-social behavior or, worse, ends in themselves.<br /><br />I do not expect the political class to address these things because such a subject requires courage. I do not expect media interests to mention them, because the constant parade of glowing oddities and novelties make them fat and happy. No, any healthy society will have to take this up on its own, at the true grassroots level. And those who do will have to be courageous, tough and determined, because their character and motives will be viciously attacked. Yet these will be the men and women we need... now. And they will be long remembered for turning things around. We must abandon the "Age of the Abdication of Personal Responsibility." It can only start in America.<br /><br />TipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-38658991797488346422013-02-18T13:22:03.481-08:002013-02-18T13:22:03.481-08:00While we're thinking about these issues... in ...While we're thinking about these issues... in an exceptionally good and intelligent set of comments... let's keep in mind that the Hawkins husband and Lorna met at work. We are living in a world where men and women who are more or less equals develop friendly relationships on the job. They sometimes go out together; they travel together; they might even confide in each other.<br /><br />Worse yet, sometimes women are flirtatious because they are naturally flirtatious. Men are likely to feel very flattered and are also likely to misread the signals.<br /><br />And then, some women are looking for mates of their own and, faced with a choice between a mass of anonymous men on Match.com and men they know well from working together... it ends up being an accident waiting to happen.Stuart Schneidermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-20055538640299034112013-02-18T12:47:54.343-08:002013-02-18T12:47:54.343-08:00True on the narcissism point. Reminds me of Ted Tu...True on the narcissism point. Reminds me of Ted Turner and his relationship with Jane Fonda. Ted expressed his love, faithfulness and devotion to her during the courtship. Then they got married. After one month, he was again on the prowl of conquest... outside his marriage bed. Pretty sad.<br /><br />But that's the way these things work for some men. And there are lots of women who willfully delude themselves into believing in their feminine mystique's power to bring such men to "the light." Talk about narcissistic fantasy. Turner had an extensive résumé in this area of life, along with two failed marriages. And Fonda, no stranger to narcissistic fantasy in myriad life examples, stayed with him for ten years, despite knowing about Ted's trysts. Pretty sad.<br /><br />So how do we navigate the human condition and protect our human commitments from our powerful biological drives? I don't have a sure answer, and I'm not alone in the annals of history. At the same time, I recognize the male biological instinct, and it is a cross we bear at times. I am saying this as a statement of fact. Facebook, chat rooms, online porn and cell phones are the latest tools to connect, making the world smaller and effectively making the search for suitable extramarital companionship easier. And let's not forget that no one put a gun to this guy's head. Maybe he was just looking for "enhanced friendship," and not much more. Pretty sad.<br /><br />Speaking of "looking," I do share Stuart's amazement that Ms. Hawkins took her tale of betrayal to such a large audience. Her mode of catharsis will deepen the humiliation. Yet that seems to be standard operating procedure in a media culture that invites the downtrodden to bare their soul, to the voyeuristic delight of readers everywhere. Dirty linen, or an opportunity for more attention? Who is narcissistic now? Pretty sad.<br /><br />To that end, my additional wish is that women would honor their own part in these events of infidelity and leave the victim crap out of it. There are sleazy guys out there, and the rationalization of "seduction" is an old-fashioned excuse, which doesn't amount to much. We're talking about adults here, and adults are responsible for their choices with affairs of the heart, and the wreckage they leave behind... one night stand or online romance notwithstanding. Again, in the end, it's all pretty sad. <br /><br />There is so much loneliness in modern life, and I think we'd better wake up to the realization that a glowing box is not a substitute for meaningful human relationship. If you think I'm missing something here, please look around you the next few days. Observe your fellow human beings, who are so desperate to connect, and who settle for luminous pixels to deliver this most basic human need. It doesn't work. And that's pretty sad, ain't it?<br /><br />TipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-11565836359541501852013-02-18T12:35:41.350-08:002013-02-18T12:35:41.350-08:00Anonymous at 10:51 -- It may well be a difference ...Anonymous at 10:51 -- It may well be a difference between the sexes: the probability of a male with a female friend with "NO" hint of attraction on the part of the male is virtually nil (just repressed). That said,the issue wasn't what do you do when there is "NO" attraction, but when the attraction is greater than zero. Your suggestions for testing the situation are very good ones.<br />Anonymous at 11:00 -- the slope indeed is slippery, but we are human and don't live cloistered lives. Best to figure out how to manage that particular situation well in advance (see Dan Ariely's work on decision making after things have gotten heated).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-66050651959096769202013-02-18T11:43:56.362-08:002013-02-18T11:43:56.362-08:00Having witnessed this firsthand, I will say that s...Having witnessed this firsthand, I will say that some men who have emotional affairs could also be getting everything possible at home.<br />Admiration, sex, love, nurturing.<br />Somehow, the most narcissistic seem to want even more...<br />In the limited experiences (thankfully) I have had, it has been insecure, but highly narcissistic men who take all they can at home and then get even more outside the marriage. They simply need that much more feeding of their ego than the average male, for some reason. They simply need that much more external assurance. They don't seem to be able to find internal assurance. They have to seek external validation.<br />IMHO...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-28233264166075212912013-02-18T11:00:03.806-08:002013-02-18T11:00:03.806-08:00Anonomous at 8:05
So we have friends of opposite s...Anonomous at 8:05<br />So we have friends of opposite sex, and we have attraction to them.<br />But we are already married to someone else.<br />What topics are you suggesting we talk about?<br />Should we discuss that we are attracted to each other?<br />Should we meet up for lunch, just the two of us?<br />How about drinks? Happy Hour?<br />We are still committed to our husbands and wives?<br />What about the bad days we have with our husbands/wives? What if we need a shoulder to lean on during those bad days? <br />Should we be able to lean on these friends of opposite sex whom we are attracted to? <br />Maybe talk about how our spouses make us so mad? How they did such-and-such? How "you" would never do that to me if I married you...<br />How "I bet you and I would get along so much better than he and I do..."<br />Two drinks later, the conversation gets more direct.<br />Three drinks later, even more...<br />I guess we should have stuck with lunch..<br />It is a slippery slope...<br />Only you know how slippery. It depends on how solid YOUR ground is.<br />Each one of us has to make that choice. <br />Just playing devil's advocate here...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-50003183437781762292013-02-18T10:51:59.273-08:002013-02-18T10:51:59.273-08:00When you have an opposite-sex friend with a "...When you have an opposite-sex friend with a "hint of attraction," I guess the only thing to do is ask yourself how far that attraction goes. I am a woman who has male friends (with NO hints of attraction, so I am not sure how "often this is present." I am happy to introduce my friends to my SO. I am happy to leave my texts, FB messages, etc. open for him to see, if these friends text or message me.<br />I think this might be a good indicator for someone trying to ask which side of the line you lie:<br />-Have you introduced these opposite-sex friends to your SO?<br />-Would it be OK if they saw your texts, FB messages, etc? If the answer is "no," perhaps there is something deeper that is going on after all. Or perhaps there is an issue in your primary relationship. Or ____ ?<br />I agree with the last anon - - a true emotional affair could be just as damaging as a one-night stand.<br />A relationship without trust doesn't stand much of a chance...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-21727444139260869342013-02-18T08:05:49.410-08:002013-02-18T08:05:49.410-08:00Right. I think that a one night stand and a true e...Right. I think that a one night stand and a true emotional affair are about equally as bad. Having sex outside of marriage shows a pretty obvious disregard of one's wedding vows and a lack of respect for the spouse (assuming of course there isn't some prior agreement that this sort of thing is allowed). An emotional affair likely stems from a bit of self-deception that morphs into deception, and again into a disregard of vows and lack of respect. The issue here is that in one cause it is pretty clear what is going on (unless you are Bil Clinton), but in the other it seems like it can be ambiguous. What about opposite-sex friendships (I leave out same-sex issues for a later discussion) where there is a hint of attraction (how often is that absent)? Are we to have no opposite-sex friends? Should discussions with the opposite sex only be about the weather and other casual topics? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-10078376219995812552013-02-18T07:16:47.567-08:002013-02-18T07:16:47.567-08:00All perspectives are welcome. The point that was r...All perspectives are welcome. The point that was raised was not so much an affair, which would presumably include an emotional and a physical connection, but a one-night-stand. Do you think that a one-night-stand is worse than a budding online romance?Stuart Schneidermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-634924075868225352013-02-18T07:10:17.846-08:002013-02-18T07:10:17.846-08:00I'm an "n" of one, so take this answ...I'm an "n" of one, so take this answer for just one...<br />I'd give my guy one second chance after an emotional affair.<br />I'd give him his suitcases after a physical affair...<br />If that helps with perspective...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-23860544073960470292013-02-18T06:28:50.374-08:002013-02-18T06:28:50.374-08:00So are we to assume that flirty emails and texts a...So are we to assume that flirty emails and texts are equivalent to a full-blow romantic affair, including what seems to be trivialized in the previous discussion, sex? I am somewhat puzzled by the argument put forward (usually by women) that sex really isn't the issue, but that connection is. Is not there some sort of "bright-line" that is crossed when clothes come off and hotel room are booked repeatedly?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-8835802234573887772013-02-17T13:40:55.954-08:002013-02-17T13:40:55.954-08:00I would not blame technology, although it makes it...I would not blame technology, although it makes it a whole lot easier ( old flames "poke" you late night on FB when you are away in business)<br />But in the end, just like I don't blame guns for shooting people, I don't blame cell phones for drunk texting to another woman, FB messaging, emailing when you need an extra pick-me-up..<br />Emotional and physical affairs are a very real part of our society, and we only have the two people in the affair to blame.<br />I agree with the commenter above, the other parts of the vows are also important to keep. If one has a tough time at work, a wife does NOT call him a loser! Unacceptable too...<br />All the aspects of the vows to be kept... <br />Love, honor, cherish...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-67153180361285238842013-02-17T12:55:47.201-08:002013-02-17T12:55:47.201-08:00Great points... I am especially impressed by the i...Great points... I am especially impressed by the insight that snarling spouses are really showing that they no longer respect their vows. Stuart Schneidermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.com