tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post5308670789576121317..comments2024-03-26T06:17:49.527-07:00Comments on Had Enough Therapy?: Depressed Men in TherapyStuart Schneidermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-59620724889997456062016-09-24T05:36:31.673-07:002016-09-24T05:36:31.673-07:00Ares Olympus said...
So what you're saying is...Ares Olympus said...<br /><br /><em>So what you're saying is men are capable of feelings of remorseful because of conscience, while women avoid feelings of remorse because they have no conscience, or a flawed conscience, so fail to consider that the perspective or feelings of men matter.</em><br /><br />I think that women fail to consider the perspective or feelings of other women as well. No-one is as merciless towards a woman as another woman. Other women are regarded as rivals (in their emotional lives) or obstacles (in their careers).<br /><br />Feminism has of course made things worse by reassuring women that being selfish and wallowing in emotions is A-OK but the problem seems to be inherent.<br /><br />There are doubtless sound evolutionary reasons for these profound differences between men and women.dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-92025779965673362662016-09-24T00:38:27.943-07:002016-09-24T00:38:27.943-07:00dfordoom said... One reason women are less likely ...dfordoom said... One reason women are less likely to kill themselves is that women never feel regret or remorse. <br /><br />So what you're saying is men are capable of feelings of remorseful because of conscience, while women avoid feelings of remorse because they have no conscience, or a flawed conscience, so fail to consider that the perspective or feelings of men matter.<br /><br />So we have collectively solved that problem by accepting hurt feelings of men don't matter, and women are right to believe this, consciously or unconsciously. And trouble-making therapists are foolishly trying to upset this ancient truce. (Or is the opposite true, men try to pretend women's feelings don't matter, until their therapist tries to convince them otherwise?)<br /><br />In any case, a danger with unacceptable feelings (the kind that PC police disapprove of) is when rationalizations get hardened into rigid assumptions, reinforced by only seeing what fits the pattern, and whose generalized conclusions are beyond question, and that are required to contain all true. I'd imagine both genders do this equally.<br /><br />Myself, I'll agree feelings and moods are subjective and contradictory and every changing, so not dependable sources of knowledge, and when shared, can be used against you later. So if I choose not to share mine with you, it may be because it is not in my best interest to do so. And if I do share, it will not be while I'm experiencing them, but much later after careful examination and a provisional integration with the needs of the people around me. At least that would be the ideal.<br />Ares Olympushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09726811306826601686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-33114116595449738512016-09-23T22:54:51.068-07:002016-09-23T22:54:51.068-07:00One reason women are less likely to kill themselve...One reason women are less likely to kill themselves is that women never feel regret or remorse. That's because women are never wrong. If you doubt that, just ask any woman. If feelings are everything you can't ever have done anything wrong because how can feelings be wrong? <br /><br />Men make moral judgments and admit the possibility of error. Women make emotional judgments and do not admit the possibility of error.dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-86813635274305265412016-09-23T22:51:20.205-07:002016-09-23T22:51:20.205-07:00So if the choice is getting in touch with one'...<em>So if the choice is getting in touch with one's feelings is a path that allows recognition of a failure of connection with the people around him, it seems a small price to pay over the despair of suicide.</em><br /><br />For men getting in touch with one's feelings is a path that leads to despair and suicide.dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-50044666904108644702016-09-23T21:47:47.411-07:002016-09-23T21:47:47.411-07:00Wow, the contempt for feelings is so vast here, yo...Wow, the contempt for feelings is so vast here, you'd almost think contempt wasn't a feeling, or is it an emotion?<br /><br />Its easy enough to accept men and women may experience depression differently, although a good scientist would perhaps try to identify different aspects of depression and find in any measure, there's likely a bell curve of responses in men and women. <br /><br />Like autonomy, men likely value autonomy or control more than women, and the less control you feel in your life, the more depressed you might be, and men might feel this more than women at times. At least you could say one opposite of autonomy is connection, and women might feel more depressed if they don't feel connected, and they may not mind feeling a little controlled, (as in "love honor and obey"), if it protects their sense of connection.<br /><br />On the other side, because men value autonomy higher, they will strive for this their whole lives, and push people away who seem to be trying to control them, and in the later years find themselves isolated and depressed, and not recognize the need for connection as valid, and many such men end up committing suicide in later life, as the successful suicide rates show. <br /><br />You can look at male and female sucide rates on a map and it is stark. The women's map is almost all light blue, <10 suicides/100k, while the men's map pretty much starts at 10 suicides/100k on up, and the sparse western states seem to collect the loneliest cowboys with rates of 25-40 suicides/100k.<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Suicide_by_region,_white_men.png<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Suicide_by_region,_white_women.png<br /><br />So if the choice is getting in touch with one's feelings is a path that allows recognition of a failure of connection with the people around him, it seems a small price to pay over the despair of suicide.<br /><br />And measures of suicide are probably yet a small measure of male depression, and you could look at alcoholism or other death-by-sitting-in-front-of-the-tv-in-a-stupor as well. <br /><br />Of course we can tell the alcoholics to get a personal trainer, and get their falling testosterone flowing again, and that'll do some good, if they listen. But if physical fitness just keeps an isolated man in his isolation, then some part of him will surely stop caring about exercise that doesn't help meet his need for connection.<br /><br />Interestingly, it looks like male politicians have a recognition that autonomy isn't the end-all-be-all of masculinity, and they will choose connection sometimes, after months of prayer and soul searching, like Cruz just endorsed Trump for president, and Trump, despite his saying he wouldn't accept an endorsement from Cruz also changed his mind.<br />http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/09/23/npr-after-bitter-primary-fight-ted-cruz-to-back-donald-trump<br /><br />So unity against women (or a specific woman) is enough to get powerful men to swallow their pride and work together against a common enemy. Once a man has a goal, depression can be delayed, at least until November 9th.<br />Ares Olympushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09726811306826601686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-22721275769059658642016-09-23T19:17:34.789-07:002016-09-23T19:17:34.789-07:00When I was young I spent years in therapy for &quo...When I was young I spent years in therapy for "depression" until finally I learnt how to get less in touch with my feelings. In fact I learnt to ignore my feelings altogether. This is something I recommend to everyone.dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-21968118685699155102016-09-23T08:50:09.109-07:002016-09-23T08:50:09.109-07:00This is slightly OT, but related...
I was teachi...This is slightly OT, but related... <br /><br />I was teaching a stats class at a local university, and discovered that the highest risk for suicide in the US is for middle aged Native American men, followed by older white men.<br /><br />http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/suicide/rates_1999_2014.htm<br /><br />If one visits the American gulags, aka Tribal Lands, it easy to understand the depths of the soul-crushing life under the benign care of the US government, but older white Boomers are a puzzle to me.Trigger Warningnoreply@blogger.com