tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post4162922452597206074..comments2024-03-26T06:17:49.527-07:00Comments on Had Enough Therapy?: Negotiation, Feminist StyleStuart Schneidermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-54014070712840651982014-03-19T12:20:47.689-07:002014-03-19T12:20:47.689-07:00In 1977 I sold my car to a feminist who decided wh...In 1977 I sold my car to a feminist who decided what she was going to pay and that I had better sell it to her for that price. Her price was actually acceptable to me, but I was so pissed by her attitude that I held out and was willing to forgo the sale just because of that. She finally caved on a measly $15 more. <br /><br />No doubt she never had kids. sestamibinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-61905839022374138372014-03-18T16:22:55.594-07:002014-03-18T16:22:55.594-07:00An interesting framework from Korn-Ferry identifie...An interesting framework from Korn-Ferry identified several dimensions of the successful senior executive:<br /><br />1)Mental agility: comfortable with complexity<br />2)People agility: communicate well with diversity of people<br />3)Change agility: likes to experiment, comfortable with change<br />4)Results agility: can deliver results in first-time situations<br />5)Self-awareness: they believe this is the most important of the criteria<br /><br />I question whether the kind of preaching done by Sandberg et al contributes much to the development of this skillset: indeed, it may inhibit improvement in item #5.David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-62055652149904159562014-03-18T14:33:31.818-07:002014-03-18T14:33:31.818-07:00Is it simplistic to say you're negotiating bad...Is it simplistic to say you're negotiating badly if you're unprepared for your fellow negotiator to say No???<br /><br />Should you then have a tantrum??<br /><br />Sounds like a plan.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-7446070797599665182014-03-18T14:12:40.430-07:002014-03-18T14:12:40.430-07:00David Fostear said...
"I've known more p...David Fostear said...<br /><br />"I've known more people whose careers stalled out or imploded because of lack of listening skills and empathy than because of a lack of assertiveness."<br /><br />Some people maybe confusing assertiveness <br />with courage. I find it easier to admire courage.<br />That said, I also find David's post above quite meaningful.<br /><br />Did Ms. Waldman really think ANY candidate for a position teaching *Philosophy* had/has negotiating leverage?? Critical thinking skills overtaken by self-esteem-engine,IMO.<br /><br />-shoeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-79442340184367124562014-03-18T14:08:49.244-07:002014-03-18T14:08:49.244-07:00I agree she failed because her provisions looked l...I agree she failed because her provisions looked like demands, and there's no safe way to make requests at all before you've even started. So everything at the start of a provisional long term relationship is about deal-breakers.<br /><br />I was talking to a friend recently about competitiveness. He was a strong chess player, while it didn't seem fun to me if I take chess too seriously. I don't much like zero-sum games where someone else has to lose for me to win.<br /><br />For conversation, I decided to test our different tactics of competitiveness in conversation and said that if I really wanted a job and knew others also wanted it, I'd offer to do it for half salary for six months to prove my skills, and then they could evaluate my usefulness to them.<br /><br />He was revulsed by this tactic, like I wasn't showing proper solidarity to workers, because if a single worker is willing to work for less, it puts the wrong sort of pressure on salary. <br /><br />I understood his logic, but the conversation started with my explaining a competitive strategy, rather than a cooperative one. Employment is a zero-sum game, so you have to get in the door somehow.<br /><br />In chess, he was willing to sacrifice a queen or rook, to improve his eventual board positions, but in life, he felt demeaned for asking for less than what he thought he deserved.<br /><br />I was surprised that he really believed he deserved "fair" wages, and denied my idea that wages and benefits are all arbitrary.<br /><br />I take my pride from needing less, adapting my lifestyle to fit far below my income, rather than the reverse, but I don't consider this a virtue, just a defensive tactic. <br /><br />And if I do have to ask for more than is freely given, I have to work though the possible outcome in my mind first, and assume the answer will be no, and not believe they are wrong for that.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-6601669293581759082014-03-18T11:09:55.331-07:002014-03-18T11:09:55.331-07:00There are many keen observations in this post. Her...There are many keen observations in this post. Here's one:<br /><br />"In the old days, women were exhorted to be more self-assertive... The practice went out of style because it was founded on an error."<br /><br />It is still in style among feminists, as a general approach. Here's a snip from Beth Wiesendanger's article to men, titled, "Five Reasons to Date a Feminist": <br /><br />===<br /><br />4) We take control, in general.<br /><br />I mean this in so many ways. Professionally, emotionally, sexually, personally, physically, and mentally. We are self-aware thinking beings who have the confidence to stand up and say “Let’s do it this way, instead!” We get things done. We challenge ourselves. We see what we want and take it. That kind of confidence is attractive–it means we have ambition, drive, and poise. We have faith in ourselves as people–not just as women. We have our own desires and goals, and we push ourselves towards them. We are OK with struggle. We know how important the fight is.<br /><br />This kind of attitude bodes well for long-term romantic partnerships, too.<br /><br />===<br /><br />So, if you can build a durable romantic relationship around a precept like that, why wouldn't it help launch a career, and build fellow-feeling with peers and employers?<br /><br />Feminism seems full of such universal wrenches. Everything is an absolute. And if the wrench won't fit the object, the object must be reconfigured to fit the wrench.<br /><br />A couple of coffee mugs come to mind. One reads, "You're either a feminist or a misogynist. There is no third choice."<br /><br />The second: "I like my feminists like I like my coffee - steaming and in your face".<br /><br />If that's the ethos, it's only natural for this aspiring professor to think it's her mission to take control of her employer.Lastangonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-65932352379347788492014-03-18T10:33:27.958-07:002014-03-18T10:33:27.958-07:00I love non-negotiable demands. They are the best ...I love non-negotiable demands. They are the best possible reason not to negotiate.<br /><br />"Since Sandberg and other feminists teach women that they are in an adversarial relationship with oppressive patriarchs, women who take their advice treat their superiors as the opposition." Given how many women are administrators and upper faculty, treating them like "the patriarchy" is horribly insulting.<br /><br />Sam L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00996809377798862214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-15727244128990698882014-03-18T09:21:18.841-07:002014-03-18T09:21:18.841-07:00Traditionally, women have always been good at gett...Traditionally, women have always been good at getting what they want. The Feminists are telling women to replace their age old people skills and intuition with cave man negotiating tactics. <br />Kathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-7103119197958703192014-03-18T07:58:26.831-07:002014-03-18T07:58:26.831-07:00I've known more people whose careers stalled o...I've known more people whose careers stalled out or imploded because of lack of listening skills and empathy than because of a lack of assertiveness.David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.com