tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post6030812915959289104..comments2024-03-26T06:17:49.527-07:00Comments on Had Enough Therapy?: Is Empathy Overrated?Stuart Schneidermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-43721113765351146462016-03-22T13:28:14.145-07:002016-03-22T13:28:14.145-07:00Bill Clinton may have felt our pain, but he enjoye...Bill Clinton may have felt our pain, but he enjoyed us having it. Or, he lied.Sam L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00996809377798862214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-5003436238075877072016-03-22T10:49:58.235-07:002016-03-22T10:49:58.235-07:00Ares Olympus @March 22, 2016 at 6:51 AM
"I c...Ares Olympus @March 22, 2016 at 6:51 AM<br /><br />"I confess I'll never understand the either/or way of seeing, and needing one side to contain all positive qualities and its opposite all negative qualities."<br /><br />Please. Stop.Ignatius Acton Chesterton OCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18222603717128565302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-68620802391290621202016-03-22T06:51:30.706-07:002016-03-22T06:51:30.706-07:00I confess I'll never understand the either/or ...I confess I'll never understand the either/or way of seeing, and needing one side to contain all positive qualities and its opposite all negative qualities.<br /><br />And it seems to me that we need to clarify what we're talking about, and then look at specific uses.<br /><br />Stuart: Therapists and other culture warriors have touted empathy as the ultimate moral virtue. Here is their reasoning: since psychopaths do not feel empathy, the more empathy you feel the less likely you are to be a psychopath. Thus, more empathy means less crime and a kinder, gentler world. But, also a more feminine world.<br /><br />So first we might try assuming here "Affective empathy" as feminine feeling orientation and "Cognitive empathy" as masculine mental orientation and see where that takes us.<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy#Affective_and_cognitive<br /><br />And as I'm also skeptical of the "feeling orientation", I see Affective Empathy can be biased, can be "tricked", and believe "appearances", so someone who looks weak is weak, and someone who looks strong is strong, and if someone who looks strong is being aggressive towards someone who looks weak, Affective Empathy can "take sides" of the weak against the strong, even if the reality of the situation is completely the opposite, if the "weak-looking person" has actually provoked the "strong-looking person".<br /><br />For example the Karpman drama triangle represents this problem - with three roles - Victim, Rescueer, and Persecuter. So it would seem a pure Affective Empathy fails the Rescuer who intervenes too quickly, before understanding the dynamic.<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle<br /><br />So someone expressing Cognitive Empathy probably ought to hold a more neutral point of view, so seeing a conflict, Cognitive Empathy can see frustration in both the Perpetrator and the Victim, and he can imagine times he felt like a Victim, and remember that sometime he acted weaker than he was, and remember when he let his temper get the better of him, and acted aggressively in an unfair way, and then his pride prevented him from admitting he was wrong.<br /><br />Then he can remember when he tried to be a Rescuer, that it worked for a while, but it made him do things for a Victim that they were strong enough to do for themselves, and encouraged passivity and dependence in the victim.<br /><br />And so taking in all those points of view, a person can use their congitive empathy to see sometimes you have to hold back a reaction and let a "drama" play out long enough for participants to learn from it, and so perhaps rather than being a Rescuer, he could merely be a referee that helps participants identify the ground rules of a conflict, and calls out participants who break their own claimed positions of conscience.<br /><br />And a part of this "theory of mind" is to acknowledge we're all different, and you can't use the same "model" for people in different states of consciousness.<br /><br />I might say the weakness of Cognitive Empathy is that its too slow, and its more of a defensive system, but it might be Affective Empathy can work quicker.<br /><br />If everyone is using Cognitive Empathy, you might imagine a game of chess, and if everyone is using Affective Empathy, you might imagine a football game. Both games can turn violent, but the physical games are more likely to need referees to intervene when the rules are broken.<br /><br />Actually I recently I saw a video with Chess Grandmaster Maurice Ashley in New York Washington Square Park, taking on a local "hustler", and its certainly the most intense game I've ever seen, just 4 minutes.<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5vnpOp0U_g<br /><br />If Ashley only listened to his aggression, his cheating rival would likely be knocked onto the ground, but Ashley wasn't interested in punishing cheaters, but testing character, and that takes Empathy, to hold back anger and to not automatically take aggression by another personally.Ares Olympushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09726811306826601686noreply@blogger.com