tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post6609888767419688198..comments2024-03-29T01:07:30.224-07:00Comments on Had Enough Therapy?: Jared Loughner, Paranoid SchizophrenicStuart Schneidermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-91112546164058272252015-09-30T18:32:34.392-07:002015-09-30T18:32:34.392-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Mrs. Patriciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05077183603629214103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-13322685359807410012011-08-21T05:34:25.467-07:002011-08-21T05:34:25.467-07:00To my mind everybody have to browse on it.To my mind everybody have to browse on it.comprar un yatehttp://yatesspain.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-14191828961760383532011-06-12T21:19:35.531-07:002011-06-12T21:19:35.531-07:00Please read Robert B Whitaker's books and look...Please read Robert B Whitaker's books and look at Finland's Open Dialogue and the Brain Bio Centre's info on screening for physical causes of conditions labeled schizophrenia before deciding medication is the correct or only treatment for those so labeled.Susan Barringer Wells (Vaughan)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07865969674169296542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-9242001735008570012011-02-03T20:34:30.817-08:002011-02-03T20:34:30.817-08:00Stuart, thank you for the thoughtful reply. As the...Stuart, thank you for the thoughtful reply. As the mother of a teenager with severe mental illness, I've spent many a sleepless night worrying about the very topic of your article.Bobbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01956995662336392027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-85161747214654861252011-01-29T08:14:00.840-08:002011-01-29T08:14:00.840-08:00Thank you, bobbi, for your clarifications. While I...Thank you, bobbi, for your clarifications. While I agree that an anorexic is guaranteed to be more dangerous to herself than the schizophrenic, the schizophrenic is potentially far more dangerous to others.<br /><br />Certainly, I am not proposing a return to lobotomies, which were not used for schizophrenia, anyway. But rather, I am looking for a way to get these patients to take the proper medication.<br /><br />As it happens, some of them do not like their medication. And most of them have severely impaired judgment... thus, I question how much free judgment they should be accorded.<br /><br />Obviously, the great challenge in the mental health field is to provide this treatment without incarcerating or sanctioning people.Stuart Schneidermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-7054070602305254142011-01-28T17:10:22.515-08:002011-01-28T17:10:22.515-08:00Thank you for this article and the unique perspect...Thank you for this article and the unique perspective it presents. However I take issue with a couple of the points you have made. An anorexic requiring forced feeding is at a far, far greater risk for serious self harm than an untreated schizophrenic. There comes a time when forced feeding is absolutely critical to survival. And one can quantify precisely how and when an anorexic will die should the acute stage of their illness persist untreated. While the risk of self / other harm can certainly be assessed in the schizophrenic, it cannot be assessed with enough precision to justify the forced treatment you describe. What's more, this life long illness would require life long forced treatment. Is that what you're advocating? How could you? Furthermore, there has been an extraordinary result of the "social disease" movement of the 19060s. Schizophrenics now maintain ownership of their frontal lobes; unlike the tens of thousands of sufferers involuntarily subjected to lobotomizes during the first half of the 20th Century. There are few populations more vulnerable than the severly mentally ill. Accessibility is sorely needed, not sanctions.Bobbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01956995662336392027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-52674696182371673102011-01-15T10:34:48.714-08:002011-01-15T10:34:48.714-08:00Confirmed MPD/DID Delta Model, from ERAD behaviora...Confirmed MPD/DID Delta Model, from ERAD behavioral facility in Tucson, AZ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-30752482063252249572011-01-15T10:12:32.578-08:002011-01-15T10:12:32.578-08:00Thanks for your reply. I agree that psychological ...Thanks for your reply. I agree that psychological methods--while they might complement the use of medication--are not first and foremost effective in the treatment of schizophrenia. <br /><br />Clearly you have a good grasp on this issue, and I see your point about emphasizing the violence angle in order to make it likelier for individuals with paranoid schizophrenia to get treated. I am just concerned about the potential damage that this argument could do to the rest of us--and even for those with schizophrenia, who, as you say, do have some initial reality contact when they first start getting ill but who, partly because of stigma, shirk treatment. Wouldn't it be a wonderful world indeed when people like Jared Loughner no longer have to live with shame but who instead see this illness as no less physiological in its origins than a brain tumor--and then seek help accordingly?Cathryn Coone-McCrarynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-59823878247422554152011-01-15T09:59:39.238-08:002011-01-15T09:59:39.238-08:00Thank you, Cathryn, for your comments. I had merel...Thank you, Cathryn, for your comments. I had merely wanted to express a suspicion about schizophrenics and violence, based on limited experience.<br /><br />I wanted to say that I was skeptical about the studies, and leave the question open.<br /><br />This morning I put up another post on schizophrenia and violence, this one referring to the opinions of Oxford psychiatrist Dr. Seena Fazel. He reports on research studies that demonstrate that schizophrenics are indeed more violent, though they cannot discount the role of drugs in the violence.<br /><br />I have not really commented on the public health crisis, because I am not in the field, but I would mention that Dr. Fazel believes that recognizing the potential for violence in schizophrenics might make it easier to treat them.<br /><br />I would only wonder whether these illnesses would be easier to treat if the psychiatric profession understood fully that they are medical, not psychological, problems.<br /><br />Way back when I was working in a psychiatric clinic, people seemed to believe that bipolar illness was a psychological condition, albeit one that no one knew how to treat psychologically. Today I don't think that anyone would agree with that.Stuart Schneidermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-40288358900352962142011-01-15T09:49:45.730-08:002011-01-15T09:49:45.730-08:00I think your article is well written and considere...I think your article is well written and considered. It makes many cogent points.<br /><br />However, you suggest that people with schizophrenia are more violent than average, strictly BASED on your experience working in a psychiatric hospital. This kind of argument is NOT a convincing argument for your point. Rather, you should look at the research--not at anecdotal experience. If you google this topic, you will find research that undermines your case.<br /><br />That having been said, a very few of people with schizophrenia are violent, although other variables seem to enter into the equation (such as substance abuse) that you do not mention.<br /><br />I take exception to your statements because of my own personal experience. I do not have schizophrenia, but I do have something called Bipolar II. This condition is mainly characterized by extremely severe, even suicidal, depression, and I have been contending with this illness now for 30 years. In my twenties, and especially my thirties, the depression was exacerbated by something called "hypomania." Anyone who googles this term will find its definition; that aside, it took me 17 years to seek any treatment. WHY? Because of misconceptions about people with mental illness--that we're all gun-toting, homicidal maniacs.<br /><br />Your article, again, certainly made many valid points, but to emphasize the violence angle does more harm than good. It would be better to focus on how to solve this public health crisis, which I agree does center around how to get these people treated, but asserting that individuals with schizophrenia are more violent than the general population will only serve to worsen an already tragic situation.Cathryn Coone-McCrarynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-9652809335378799312011-01-12T08:54:22.584-08:002011-01-12T08:54:22.584-08:00I like this quote
Every right-thinking person kne...I like this quote<br /><br />Every right-thinking person knew [Jared Loughner] was a sleeper agent programmed by George W. to be activated with a code word from Sarah Palin. There was no mystery about who this suspect was, not like the shooter at Fort Hood in 2009 who shouted “Allahu Akbar!” as he killed 13 people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-50179368916729277132011-01-11T13:42:04.471-08:002011-01-11T13:42:04.471-08:00As you note, the diagnosis of mental illness has s...As you note, the diagnosis of mental illness has sometimes been used to stifle dissent and to lock up political enemies.<br /><br />That does not mean that it does not exist, but that we need to be careful about applying the label.<br /><br />With Loughner, it seemed that everyone knew that he was seriously deranged and dangerous. It was common knowledge.<br /><br />Personally, I don't think it is extremely difficult to diagnose schizophrenia; it does not exist on a continuum, but seems to be a thing itself.<br /><br />If you look at the picture that is currently circulating, there seems little doubt that we are dealing with some form of illness.<br /><br />The problems arise when you have to distinguish between paranoias and the kinds of manias that exist in bipolar illness. Or with the kinds of problems that might be caused by a brain tumor.<br /><br />Clearly, the best approach would be to have some kind of test to determine the nature of the illness. When dealing with bipolar illness, I have been informed, that the illness is caused by a lithium deficiency in the blood, and that the deficiency can be measured with a blood test.<br /><br />I do not know if that is definitive, but it points in a good direction. And while I have worked in psychiatric institutions, I am not and never have been a psychiatrist. So, consider mine to be lay opinions.<br /><br />I have also been informed and have seen on several television programs that PET scans of schizophrenics are radically different from those of normal people. Perhaps this will point the way to a test that can determine whether a patient is or is not schizophrenic.<br /><br />Loughner seems never to have been hospitalized at all, even for observation. I doubt that very many psychiatrists would have missed the diagnosis, if he had beenStuart Schneidermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12784043736879991769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-2865561516843822862011-01-11T13:33:23.557-08:002011-01-11T13:33:23.557-08:00TO: Dr. Schneiderman
RE: The Definition of Mental ...TO: Dr. Schneiderman<br />RE: The Definition of Mental Illness<br /><br />The big questions are:<br /><br />[1] How do we identify mental illness?<br />[2] What are the rules for 'restricting' them? Or 'institutionalizing' them?<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Chuck(le)<br />[Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay.]cbpeltonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-35478489483625325002011-01-11T13:30:26.644-08:002011-01-11T13:30:26.644-08:00TO: Dennis, et al.
RE: The Whole 'Press'.....TO: Dennis, et al.<br />RE: The Whole 'Press'....double entendé fully intended....<br /><br />....on this is to classify conservatives as 'mentally unstable', e.g., 'ill'. <br /><br />Students of history have seen this as the 'usual suspects' ploy used time and time again to eliminate political dissidents. The Soviet Union, e.g., Communists, a.k.a., 'progressives', used this very effectively. The Chinese Communists use it as well. Disagree with the 'powers that be' in such a society and consider yourself 'mentally ill' and bound for their 'treatment' facilities in far, far away.<br /><br />Their credo could be stated as....<br /><br /><b>Help stamp out mental illness, or I'll kill you!</b><br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Chuck(le)<br />[A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular. -- Adlai Stevenson]cbpeltonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-16383548246187993412011-01-11T13:17:19.237-08:002011-01-11T13:17:19.237-08:00Bravo Chuck. That is why the Sheriff is tossing r...Bravo Chuck. That is why the Sheriff is tossing rocks at everyone in order to keep them from noticing his seeming malfeasance in this case.Dennisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-76271538039534786182011-01-11T10:58:57.507-08:002011-01-11T10:58:57.507-08:00TO: Kentucky Packrat
RE: Gun Rights & the Ment...TO: Kentucky Packrat<br />RE: Gun Rights & the Mentally 'Unstable'<br /><br />Good points. <br /><br />Based on what I've seen so far, he definitely qualified to be <a href="http://bigjournalism.com/dloesch/2011/01/11/media-pivots-to-blame-gun-laws-sloppy-reporting-punditry-ensues/" title="Media Pivots To Blame Gun Laws, Sloppy Reporting, Punditry Ensues" rel="nofollow"><b>'Possession Prohibited'</b></a> under Arizona's Revised Statutes.<br /><br />" Under Arizona law, prohibited possessor are defined in ARS 13-3101 which states:<br /><br /> 7. “Prohibited possessor” means any person:<br /><br /> (a) Who has been found to constitute a danger to himself or to others or to be persistently or acutely disabled or gravely disabled pursuant to court order under section 36-540, and whose right to possess a firearm has not been restored pursuant to section 13-925.<br /><br />Had campus security and his parents followed up with proper treatment and reported his actions, he, from what it sounds, would have been an easy PP and unable to buy a weapon. Had the Sheriff’s office acted upon what is suggested as their advanced knowledge of Loughner’s troubled history, they may have obtained a warrant and confiscated his firearm – or apprehended him before he bought it."<br /><br />And Jared didn't lose his gun-rights because, I suspect, the Sheriff couldn't be 'bothered' with following through on the necessity, after Jared had had those run-ins....whatever they may have been.<br /><br />I suspect that is why the Sheriff is trying so desperately to foist the blame off on Rush Limbaugh and others of his sort.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Chuck(le)<br />[The Truth will out....]cbpeltonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8078379512095504946.post-72510057063405558372011-01-11T10:44:58.113-08:002011-01-11T10:44:58.113-08:00Schizophrenia and the most paranoid of bipolar cas...Schizophrenia and the most paranoid of bipolar cases have both bothered me tremendously as a libertarian. <br /><br />IMHO, a person has the right to refuse medical treatment, because the other path can lead to madness of its own. However, as you say schizophrenics (and some bipolar people, and arguably some sociopaths) don't connect to our reality long enough to make an informed decision. Do you medicate them long enough to let them make an informed decision?<br /><br />For Loughner, it looks clear that (had he been sane) he committed several felonies that would have resulted in prison time. Instead of starting the process and having him skip out with an insanity defense, the system just dropped him out. However, by dropping him straight out, he didn't lose his gun rights(*), and there was no chance to force treatment.<br /><br />(*) I won't argue that Loughner couldn't have gotten a gun if he had a block on him; I would just argue that the legal system wouldn't have sold him one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com