Sunday, December 19, 2010

Michael Moore Banned in Cuba

If this story does not bring a smile to your face-- or, at least, a grin-- I don't know what will.


We all remember Michael Moore's movie, Sicko... even if we never saw it, even if we wish we hadn't.


In case you missed it, the film indicted the American health care system and promoted the virtues of other health care systems in other parts of the world. It gushed praise about the health care system in Communist Cuba.


This should not have come as too much of a surprise. Moore is a left wing propagandist; he works tirelessly to destroy American capitalism. 


Now, we learn, through the same Wikileaks whose founder, Julian Assange, is being defended by Michael Moore against rape charges, that Moore's film was banned in Cuba. Link here.
As Roger Kimball reports, the reasons were twofold. When Cuban physicians saw the film they walked out on it, because they could not bear to see their health care system so grossly misrepresented. The film was simply promoting a big lie.

The government also banned the film because it feared the reactions of everyday Cuban citizens. If these citizens had been allowed to learn that the best of Cuban health care was only available to high party officials and those willing to pay the right bribes, they would have been outraged.

And yet, even Cuba's best is not really very good. The Guardian reports that: "The Cuban ruling elite leave Cuba when they need medical care.... Fidel Castro, for example, brought in a Spanish doctor during his health crisis in 2006. The vice-minister of health, Abelardo Ramirez, went to France for gastric cancer surgery. The neurosurgeon who heads CIMEQ ... hospital-- widely regarded as one of the best in Cuba-- came to England for eye surgery, returning periodically for checkups."

As Roger Kimball points out, Hollywood's elite loved Michael Moore's film. They nominated it for an Oscar. Perhaps they are just not smart enough to understand the difference between fact and propaganda.

32 comments:

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Schneiderman, et al.
RE: Heck!!!

Hollywood's elite loved Michael Moore's film. They nominated it for an Oscar. Perhaps they are just not smart enough to understand the difference between fact and propaganda. -- Stuart Schneiderman

The vast majority of them are propagandists themselves. Either that or the 'useful fools' addressed elsewhere in the blog site.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Propaganda must not serve the truth. -- Adolf Hitler]

Robert Krause said...

Dr. Shneiderman,

I just had an opportunity to spend a month in Cuba. I was there specifically to research what life was like in Cuba under a socialist economy. While there I interviewed every day people including medical students, musicians, taxi drivers, prostitutes, people who ran casa particulars, professors, a librarian and others. I asked these people what they thought of their country, what they liked and didn't like. If they would prefer their system or a capitalist system. One of the things they liked most about their society with almost complete agreement was their health care system which for Cubans is free. I knew one woman who was HIV positive and who was taking a cocktail of antiretrovirals that I imagine would cost more than ten thousand dollars US. Most Cubans make about 15 US Dollars a month. A few make as much as 20 US Dollars a month. I didn't interview the party elite, of course. The chief problem I heard about the health care system is that the US embargo has made it impossible for Cuba to have many medications and instruments available to the rest of the world.I should also note that Medical School in Havana is attended by people from around the world because of the quality of the education. I was surprised by the way in which the quality of life in Havana is quite good and the ways in which it lacked.

I am surprised a bit by the rhetorical quality of your blog entry. You write about propaganda and fact but seem to be writing from a perspective with a clear bias which is not seeking truth but rather furthering your agenda.

Stuart Schneiderman said...

The information is from the Guardian... which is hardly a right-of-center publication, and from Wikileaks, which is not doing the bidding of the capitalists...

Unknown said...

According to this link, the movie was not banned in Cuba. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/viva-wikileaks-sicko-was_b_798586.html

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Robert Krause
RE: Half Truths, Anyone?

There's something of a difference between liking that your health care is 'free' and getting great health care.

You do not address the quality of their health care in the least way. Even the comment about the woman with HIV getting a 'cocktail' is hardly what anyone with more than two synapse to rub together would equate to great health care.

TO: Tom Ryan
RE: Hmmmm....

Comparing two news sources....

[1] The Guardian
vs.
[2] Huffington Post

Gee....which has more credibility? I just CAN'T decide.....NOT!!!!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Hey, Krause....

....did you see any theaters offering Sicko down there in Cuba?

Inquiring minds want to know.....

Cappy said...

The question I want answered is "Would a former D.I. make a bad therapist?

Stuart Schneiderman said...

Maybe a DI would not be such a bad therapist... how do other therapists handle crybaby patients?

It's good that Michael Moore has told us that his film was shown in Cuba... which may or may not be true. Since Moore has no real relationship with fact, I find it difficult to take him at his word.

It is of course possible that both the Guardian account and the Moore account are true. Perhaps the physicians who saw the film and who fear that the Cuban people would revolt against the regime if they saw it were too alarmist. Or perhaps they gave the Cuban people too much credit. Perhaps the government decided that the propaganda value was high enough to take the risk. Or maybe the Cuban people are so thoroughly beaten down that they will not dare rebel.

As for the quality of health care in Cuba, no one has contested the fact that when Fidel was sick they had to fly in a surgeon and operating equipment from Spain.

I do not know about the medications that people are receiving for HIV, but someone should inform us about how much they all do cost and about how many people in Africa, for example, are receiving the same medication for free thanks to the US government.

I will admit, readily, that the Cuban people are not receiving the medication through the largesse of the US gov't, but surely it is conceivable that a charitable organization or a foreign government is providing them.

Cuba remains a dirt-poor backwater that has been destroyed by the repressive Castro regime.

Maybe they have some good health care... a sort of Potemkin health care system... but ask yourself this: When you or anyone you love gets sick and needs health care will you start thinking about how quickly you can get an appointment with a doctor or check into a hospital in Havana?

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Cappy
RE: The 'DI'....

....as 'therapist'.

Ever see Jack Webb, as The DI?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[You're so slow. You're so slow.....]

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Schneiderman
RE: TARGET!!!!

....ask yourself this: When you or anyone you love gets sick and needs health care will you start thinking about how quickly you can get an appointment with a doctor or check into a hospital in Havana? -- Stuart Schneiderman

Cease Fire....

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. I wonder how Krause will answer that....NOT!

Robert Krause said...

Wow quite a bit of energy regarding this topic.

I am a psychiatric nurse practitioner in private practice. I do not have health insurance. I have never given thought to traveling abroad anywhere for medical care though now that I am giving it thought its an interesting one, though I feel this is somewhat of a red herring for the disucssion at hand.


Contrary to Dr. Schneiderman's view, I did not find Havana to be a "dirt poor back water". Clearly it is not as economically prosperous as the US or Europe But this doesnt say much most of the rest of the capitalist world isnt as rich as the US or Europe either. I saw new cars on the roads, incredible amount of bulding and rebuilding, well kept up highways and roads, most people I came into contact with had cell phones and many wore jewerlyand designer clothes. I did not experience the people as downtrodden or overwhelmed by a malaise or coerced into speaking only the party line. I found most people where quite clear about their criticisms of their government and didn't seem overly concerned telling me about it. Nor did they with hold thier praises for the things that worked for them.
Since the revolution the literacy rate has increased from 70% illiteracy before the revolution to more than 90 % literacy after. life expectancy in Cuba in 1955 was 63.9 in the us the same year it was 69.77. in 2007 in cuba it was 78.26 in the US it was 77.99 (world bank data). Mortality rate for children under 5 in cuba in 1960 was 54/1000 in the US it was 30.2. In 2007 it was 6.5 for Cuba and 7.6 for the US.

As far as travel for medical treatment medical tourism is a new source of revenue for Cuba where people from Europe, Canda and an increasing number of people fom the US are going to Cuba for treament. I have never considered it but thanks to your questions I discovered that it is a growing trend, perhaps I would!

Cuban medical doctors because of the lack of medical technologies rely more heavily on older medical skills like ascultation and palpation skills that for everyday medical care are quite appropriate.

BTW I imagine the wealthy and politically well connected in societies all over the world travel for medical care to various places that serve their needs best. That is to say I am not surprised Fidel traveled to Spain for treatment.

you may be interested in the following :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba

my blog from Cuba:

http://cubaoctober2010.blogspot.com/

Here is a link to some pictures I took:
http://picasaweb.google.com/RobertGKrause/

I didn't see Sicko playing in the theaters. The only American movie I saw playing was Robin Hood. Sicko however isnt a very recent film so who knows what played some years ago.

The people I knew who went to the doctor or the hospital while I was there (both foreigners and Cubans) were seen the day they went in without appointment and were treated well in each case.Mone Cuban brought me her lab results to interpret them for her. I agreed with the diagnosis she was given and thought the blood work was appropriate as was the treatment prescribed. A German friend went for an acute illness was seen promptly and given medication for his condition. he was very pleased with his treatment.

Robert Krause said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Robert Krause
RE: By the Numbers....

I am a psychiatric nurse practitioner in private practice. I do not have health insurance. I have never.... -- Krause

Appreciate the background info, but what does this have to do with the topic of this thread. Let alone answering the questions asked of you above?

Nothing.

I did not find Havana to be a "dirt poor back water". -- Krause

That's a matter of relative opinion. Isn't it. And in your follow-on sentence, you seem to represent that when you say....

Clearly it is not as economically prosperous as the US or Europe. -- Krause

Ever been to Colon, Panama? How does Havana compare to it? Better? Worse?

I saw new cars on the roads, incredible amount of bulding and rebuilding, well kept up highways and roads, most people I came into contact with had cell phones.... -- Krause

Yadda....Yadda....Yadda....

You're STILL not answering the questions put to you earlier. You're being evasive.

As far as travel for medical treatment medical tourism is a new source of revenue for Cuba where people from Europe, Canda and an increasing number of people fom the US are going to Cuba for treament. -- Krause

Got some stats on that?

Additionally, would YOU go to Havana for medical treatment? Over going here in the US?

Answer the question.

BTW I imagine the wealthy and politically well connected in societies all over the world travel for medical care to various places that serve their needs best. -- Krause

You 'imagine' well. And most of them come to US. And NOT to Cuba.

Why IS that?

As for wikipedia. It's a great source of information for non-controversial matters like the data on members of the Periodic Table. But for matters like this? FORGET IT!

So you didn't see Sicko playing in Havana. Why am I not surprised.....

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]

Robert Krause said...

It is relevant to the discussion that I am a medical professional. Secondly that in the prosperous US I among 53 million others do not have health insurance a very relevant factor to overall choices and access to health care.

As compared with cities in India, Turkey, Egypt I would say that the standard of living is substantially higher in Cuba. My first thought when I was in Havana is that it reminded me of Naples about 20 years ago. I would also compare it in many respects with Costa Rica. The poorer appearing Central Havana is like many large cities around the world fairly dirty and crowded. As I traveled through the rest of the city I found many Neighborhoods that by all appearances looked very middle class. The streets were by and large very clean. The City was very safe (men and women would walk alone at any time of night in the city) . There was a stark absence of barbed wire fencing that is common in Latin American cities. there are a fair share of run down buildings and buildings in ruins in the center of Havana, however there is also an incredible number of buildings being refurbished. No I do not have stats and any I could produce I am sure you'd simply dismiss. I actually do have more stats regarding changes in healthcare system numbers of hospital beds, etc but this data is from the Cuban government which if you will not accept basic statistical data compiled centrally in wikipedia but primarily from the World Bank info I imagine you would not consider the Cuban Gov. Stats. so I won't bother.

Your dismissive yada yada yada after I attempt to do exactly what you call for which is to offer you examples of why I would say Havana wasn't dirt poor back water , my comments about the new cars and well repaired highways... I was surprised to find these when I went. The roads and the vehicles are in much better repair and far newer than those of for example India --when I was there last 3 years ago.

Is sicko playing in your local theater? No I imagine not why not? Cause its been out of the theater for years thats why. I cannot say when or if Sicko played in Havana, I was there for a month in October. Of the theaters I passed bye it wasnt playing. You shouldn't be surprised ---its been out of the theaters for years.

Robert Krause said...

It is relevant to the discussion that I am a medical professional. Secondly that in the prosperous US I among 53 million others do not have health insurance a very relevant factor to overall choices and access to health care.

As compared with cities in India, Turkey, Egypt I would say that the standard of living is substantially higher in Cuba. My first thought when I was in Havana is that it reminded me of Naples about 20 years ago. I would also compare it in many respects with Costa Rica. The poorer appearing Central Havana is like many large cities around the world fairly dirty and crowded. As I traveled through the rest of the city I found many Neighborhoods that by all appearances looked very middle class. The streets were by and large very clean. The City was very safe (men and women would walk alone at any time of night in the city) . There was a stark absence of barbed wire fencing that is common in Latin American cities. there are a fair share of run down buildings and buildings in ruins in the center of Havana, however there is also an incredible number of buildings being refurbished. No I do not have stats and any I could produce I am sure you'd simply dismiss. I actually do have more stats regarding changes in healthcare system numbers of hospital beds, etc but this data is from the Cuban government which if you will not accept basic statistical data compiled centrally in wikipedia but primarily from the World Bank info I imagine you would not consider the Cuban Gov. Stats. so I won't bother.

Your dismissive yada yada yada after I attempt to do exactly what you call for which is to offer you examples of why I would say Havana wasn't dirt poor back water , my comments about the new cars and well repaired highways... I was surprised to find these when I went. The roads and the vehicles are in much better repair and far newer than those of for example India --when I was there last 3 years ago.

Is sicko playing in your local theater? No I imagine not why not? Cause its been out of the theater for years thats why. I cannot say when or if Sicko played in Havana, I was there for a month in October. Of the theaters I passed bye it wasnt playing. You shouldn't be surprised ---its been out of the theaters for years.

There were important ways that I would say that the quality of life in Havana exceeded mine in the US. The people all worked but didnt work too much. They lived and socialized with their friends and family every day. They would have friends and family over and celebrate late into the night several days a week. Art, music, dance were integral parts of their daily lives.

Robert Krause said...

If our focus is on the health care situation in Cuba still you did not comment on the factual data that since the Revolution the life span has increased to par with the US, the child mortality rate is better than ours the access to health care is better than ours. These are very important and relevant factors to claims regarding the quality of a health care system.

Still you choose to parse out whether the examples I offer about the status of Havana being dirt poor are matters of opinion relative and choose to question examples I offer to support my claims. Haiti is dirt poor. Havana has electricity and running water that only went out while I was there during a hurricane and came back on the next day. Havana has night clubs, restaurants, and even shopping malls movie theaters, and good universities.

If you read over my blog you will see more criticism that I make of Cuba including policies that seem to create some of the problems that exist.

What I am trying to do here though is debate and correct what appears to be mistaken ideas about what life in Cuba is like. They lack our mega stores and hundreds of choices of dish detergent and choices for cola. if that is what is meant by dirt poor then I guess they are. But the people have enough food to eat, of all the gripes the people I interviewed had the thing none complained about was their health care system. Though some mentioned a lack of medicines and medical technologies both of these were attributed to the embargo. Still as I mentioned people who I knew while I was there who interacted with the medical system had no complaints about it, were treated promptly and effectively at no cost to the Cubans and very minimal cost to the foreigners. This is a far cry from what it would be like to get treatment in New Haven if one had no health insurance or many times if one does have insurance. For instance,sometimes it takes months for me to refer a patient to a neurologist even if they have insurance.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Robert Krause
RE: Heh

It is relevant to the discussion that I am a medical professional. -- Krause

I wouldn't rely overly much on the claim to be a 'medical professional', Bob. I've known such that should have had their licenses pulled. I've known such that lie through their teeth. I've EXPERIENCED such that practice euthanasia on the unwitting.

In other words, the concept of 'medical professional' holds little water with me. As well as with a growing body of others who are getting thoroughly 'cranky' with the concept as practiced today in side the medical industry. [Note: It's no longer a profession, except in terms of 'credentials'. The heart of it, as described millennia ago, is no longer there. It's all about MONEY, now.]

Secondly that in the prosperous US I among 53 million others do not have health insurance a very relevant factor to overall choices and access to health care. -- Krause

Heh....

Earlier you stated that YOU'RE ONE OF THAT 53 MILLION. Why is that?

And by the way....

....that number of 53 million seems to me a bit specious. I seem to recall that the figure initially touted by the Leftists in favor of Obamacare was 46 million. NOT 53 million. [Note: Why is it that a 'medical professional' can't cite proper stats?]

And even THAT figure was effectively challenged.

More to follow. That was just something to do with thoughts that sprang to mind reading the first paragraph of your multi-part response.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The field behind rhetoric is oft mined with equivocation.]

Robert Krause said...

Chuck,

Regardless of your experiences of medical professionals I am one. I am fully trained,licensed and practicing. Your questioning my veracity based on experience of others is logically fallacious. One has nothing necessarily to do with the other.

I am not "in it for the money" if i were I would be working for some big organization and have health insurance. I work independently and take all insurances including state insurance and people who are self pay and have difficulty paying. My work is a vocation. Or as Marx would say , " From each according to his ability to each according to his need."

As far as the varying stats on the number of uninsured you seem to lack any sort of generosity as if anything turns on the the difference between 46 and 53 million. The fact remains that in the biggest economy in the world access to a fundamental need such as health care is unobtainable to many of our citizens. 46 or 53 million hardly makes a difference when we are comparing a society where everyone has access with a society where tens of millions do not. That is the point. So if you prefer 46 million be my guest I will happily accept your numbers. Still why do we have anyone without health insurance and claim that our system is so superior?

But perhaps you find argument for its own sake more interesting than the actual content of our discussion.

Stuart Schneiderman said...

I would think that we would all agree that the price of health insurance is too high. And that reforms should have tried to bring down the costs by decreasing regulatory control over what the insurance companies can and cannot offer.

If health insurance were affordable, then people would have the choice of buying it or not buying it. I for one would defend Robert's right not to buy health insurance if he does not want it, but I would also want to see reforms that make it affordable.

As of now, the famous health care law seems to be increasing everyone's insurance premiums.

There are two other problems that are worth mentioning. As the Wall Street Journal reported today, and as has been reported widely elsewhere, we are soon going to be facing doctor shortages... one of whose consequences will be that people are having a harder time getting appointments with physicians.

It's one thing to have insurance; quite another to see a physician. We can all sing the glories of forcing everyone to buy insurance, or to be on Medicaid, but if no physicians want to see them, what good is it really.

Dare I mention that, according to Robert, Cuba is largely deficient in medical technology. They might blame it on the embargo, because is good to have a scapegoat, but still, if they lack the most modern surgical and diagnostic tools, how good is their health care, really?

Robert Krause said...

The issue of standard of living was in response to the comment about Cuba being a dirt poor back water. It is far from that compared with many other nations I have been.

Life span is a direct measurable and comparable statistic related to the overall health of a population. I don't recall at any point denying that there may be better health care available to the well positioned political elite. This is the same everywhere. It is the same here. Our congressmen have great health care. I have not obfuscated but if you like I'll send an email (yes they have email) to friends I have made in Cuba and see if any of them have seen Sicko or if they can find out if it has been played in Cuba. I doubt they have Netflix though.

your evidence is not compelling btw, Cuba has a population of about 11 million. About 2.5 million lives in Havana, much of the rest lives near Havana or in Santiago. Cuba has made large areas of the nation wildlife preserves... check out the loneliplanet guide for a brief discussion of that... so the lighted up parts happen to be Havana and Santiago and the few other cities.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Schneiderman
RE: Health Care Costs

Yes. The cost IS too high. It's been too high since the inception of the so-called Major Medical health insurance policies and the medical industry seeing such as a 'blue sky' project.

Since when does an aspirin cost $20? Or a liter of physiological saline $250+?

I could bring in a Ziplock bags of distilled water with a dash of salt and other minerals and saved my insurance provider SCADS of money, my last overnight stay in a hospital.

The problem is the monopoly, e.g., strangle hold the AMA and the pharm companies have on the system.

[Note: I'm NOT a 'medical professional'. But my undergrad work was medical microbiology with an emphasis on pathology. So I'm not totally ignorant. Rather, I'm a systems analyst and I've learned how to recognize a problem and using root-cause analysis techniques, identify where REAL problems are in a system. Additionally, with my experiences in the military, I've learned to recognize actions of groups for what they are. Especially when they want to keep their objective secret. They teach it well at the Command and General Staff College. It's called Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield (IPB). And, certain aspects of it can be very well applied to such areas as business, politics and government.]

I agree that Bob has the 'right', at present, NOT to purchase health insurance. However, I say it's disingenuous of him to complain as an arg that people don't have it when he chooses not to have it himself. Especially when he, as a 'medical professional' probably can afford. Many more of the false number of 53 million he claimed, likewise CHOOSE not to have it. I was one of them myself, some years ago.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Can atheists get insurance for acts of God?]

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Schneiderman
RE: But What About Bob?

Bob seems to be enamored of Cuba. And, likely of Communism, too boot.

His 'defense' of Cuba under communism is blatantly obvious to even the most casual observer.

To this I bring forth an argument that was presented via the blogfather.

Having spent 27+ years defending this country against ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, I have low regard for intellectual integrity or intelligence anyone who defends a political system that, in the last century, murdered more people than all the religious wars down through the march of human history.

I believe we sort of discussed that down the hall from here.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. -- Ronald Reagan]

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Robert Krause
RE: Additionally....

As compared with cities in India, Turkey, Egypt I would say that the standard of living is substantially higher in Cuba. My first thought when I was in Havana is that it reminded me of Naples about 20 years ago. I would also compare it in many respects with Costa Rica. -- Krause

Again, failure to answer simple questions. Heck. This has NOTHING to do with 'standard of living'. It has to do with health care available in Cuba. 



Your dismissive yada yada yada after I attempt to do exactly what you call for which is to offer you examples.... -- Krause

I never asked for such. So you get another Yadda....Yadda....Yadda.
Typical 'progressive' effort to change the subject under discussion, which is not about cars and metro Havana but about health care in Cuba.

Now, off-topic, since you seem to have a fixation on 'standards of living'. And whether or not Cuba is a 'third world' state. I offer THIS evidence. Zoom in on the image. Notice the use of electricity in Cuba against other countries. Cuba resembles more North Korea than US. Even Costa Rica has more lights than Cuba. Heaven forfend you compare Cuba to Naples.



[Continued in next comment.....]

Chuck Pelto said...

[Continued from previous comment....]

Is sicko playing in your local theater? No I imagine not why not? Cause its been out of the theater for years thats why. -- Krause

No. But I can get it any time I want from Amazon.com. How about that in Cuba?

I cannot say when or if Sicko played in Havana, I was there for a month in October. Of the theaters I passed bye it wasnt playing. You shouldn't be surprised ---its been out of the theaters for years. -- Krause

Did it EVER play in Cuba? Based on more reliable sources than Huffington Post, I'll wager dollars to donuts that it has not played in the public venue. Albeit I'll also wager that certain government entities in Cuba HAVE seen it.

If our focus is on the health care situation in Cuba still you did not comment on the factual data that since the Revolution the life span has increased to par with the US, the child mortality rate is better than ours the access to health care is better than ours. -- Krause

Again with the obfuscation. The REAL question is about the health care in Cuba. To wit, is there one system for the political elite and another for the rest of the citizens?

Answer the question.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Joseph Stalin's grave was a Communist Plot.]

Robert Krause said...

Actually, the problem is that I cannot currently afford health insurance because of pre-existing conditions it is not viable for me at this time. I could close my practice or reduce it and go to work for a hospital though that is true.

Robert Krause said...

No I am not a communist. And I am not really enamored of their current system (and less so of the Soviet version). I am honorably discharged from the US Navy (reserves). I went to Cuba to see first hand what life was like so I wouldn't take the Huffington post, or the Guardian or the New York Times reports but rather see and report for myself what was really happening there and I wanted to do so before the socialist experiment came to an end.

I find it very curious how this discussion of the objective conditions of a nation seems to have turned into a discussion of me and my views.

My intention is simply to report what I actually saw while I was there. A major factor in my deciding to make the project was my reading of Francis Fukiyama's The end of history (yes Regan's economic advisor).

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Robert Krause
RE: Heh

With all your 'tap-dancing', you should be in show business.

You still do not answer a simple question. And that, provides sufficient proof—in my honestly held opinion—of your 'veracity'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. -- George Orwell]

Chuck Pelto said...

P.S. That includes your complaint that you are NOT a 'communist'. Everything you've done here speaks volumes otherwise.

Robert Krause said...

I get it Chuck anyone who doesnt buy right-wing propaganda, thinks for themselves and actually goes to check out what is true or who stands to the left of say Sara Palin and the Tea Party nut jobs must be a communist. I thought I was having a discussion about a topic but your red baiting is getting boring. Caio Comrade.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: All
RE: Another 'Progressive' Ploy

Typical progressive 'debate' is that if they can't refute your arguments—let alone answer your questions, you asked so they could justify their position—they call you names and run away.

I asked Bob to tell us whether or not there were two different systems for health care in Cuba. A question asked in various forms throughout this thread's comments section. And he has yet to answer either "yes" or "no". Typical evasion. Typical 'progressive', i.e., typical 'communist'.

'nuff said.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Liberals aren't. Progressives won't.]

P.S. Like his telling 'Caio, Comrade.'

Robert Krause said...

I don't know. Probably? There are in most societies...including ours, I think was my response more than once.

Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Robert Krause
RE: Answers

Probably. -- Krause

I'll take that as a definite 'yes'.

As for your claim to have answered before, please show us where, in this thread.

RE: [OT] US as Well?

I don't know. Probably? There are in most societies...including ours, I think was my response more than once. -- Krause

Explain how so. Compare and contrast against what goes on in Communist countries, e.g., Cuba.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]

Chuck Pelto said...

P.S. When YOU say, "ours", as in some society YOU belong to, which 'society' is that? The United States of America? Or some other society?